Plato

Contents

Plato#


Revised

12 Apr 2023


Notes#

Plato

  • dualism of what changes and what stays the same

  • distillation of his predecessors

  • epistemic distinction, dualism: mind grasping forms vs body perceiving changeable things

  • Plato is critical and self-aware of this epistemic dualism

  • natural science is unstable, unreliable due to the distinction between mind/knowing and body/sensing

  • relation to things in the world via trust

Timaeus

  • our understanding of the natural world are limited

  • structures in the world that are mathematically analyzable

  • the elements have a geometric structure

  • unintelligible, underlying chora vs rational, intelligible structure of the elements

for Heisenberg, these views are in Plato’s physics

  • the belief of the atomists that matter is composed of very small particles

  • the belief of the Pythagoreans in the mathematical structure of the universe

20th century

  • positivism

  • anti teleologicism

for Abel Rey

  • Plato’s dialectic is the basis of natural science

  • Plato’s physics is mythico-mathematical: la grande mathématisation du concret et du sensible in cosmology and the physics of the elements

for Whitehead

  • Plato’s Timaeus and Newton’s Scholium are the two great cosmological documents governing western thought

example in Plato

  • the appetitive/digestive parts of the body/soul are stationed below the diaphragm in order to be as remote as possible from the seat of counsel; the length/windings of the intestinal canal were provided by the makers of mankind in order to lessen our appetites for food and drink and incline us to philosophy

Plato’s objectives

  • true teleology

  • mockery of the kind of teleology that reduces nature to human measure

  • moral imperative, clothed with the irony of myth in teleological language

Why when speaking on nature does Timaeus the Pythagorean tell Socrates a myth? Why does the Timaeus have the form not of scientific treatise but of myth?

  • a botanist delights in the beauty of flowers, but their delight has nothing to do with their scientific search; for Plato, there is no such distinction

  • for Plato, the cosmos as the object of his scientific inquiry was also the object of his aesthetic admiration and religious awe

  • the cosmos is a perceptible god, supreme in beauty/excellence/greatness/perfection

Plato’s epistemology, ontology

  • we cannot speak with exactness about the world of change, but only about the world of being (mathematics and the forms)

  • wrt becoming (the world of change), we can only give “likely accounts”

How is it possible that we are able to construct in concepts [εν λογοις] becoming (the world of change)?

  • if the world of change were nothing but change, we could not speak about it; it would have complete instability

  • the world of change is not nothing but change; it has a great deal of stability; we can speak about it

  • nature is constituted of two blended principles

    • NOUS mind, accounting for law, order, stability, that which makes sense

    • ANANKE necessity, blind force, the futile folly of the infinite

    • both are causes, though mind prevails over necessity

  • we could not live if order did not get the better of brute force

  • human life must turn to nature as its model

Plato’s cosmology is not simply Pythagorean

  • the Timaeus must be understood as concentrating the whole of pre Platonic thought, and a struggle against each one of them

    • Anaximander

    • Pythagoras

    • Empedocles

    • Anaxagoras

    • Leucippus

    • Democritus

  • Plato blends their fundamental views into his own cosmological myth and outdistances each of their particular systems

Matter

  • Whitehead: “The history of the doctrine of matter has yet to be written. It is the history of the influence of Greek philosophy on science.”

  • non technical “wood, timber”; for Aristotle, technical: that from which bodies are formed, upon which form is imprinted

  • Plato originated the concept

  • Plutarch: They are correct who say that Plato discovered the elementary principle underlying qualitative process, that which is now called ‘matter’ or ‘substance’ [ο νυν υλην και φυσιν καλουσιν] and thus freed the philosophers of many diffculties.

  • Aristotle’s “wood” corresponds to–though not the same as–Plato’s “receptacle of all becoming [δεξαμενη, υποδοχη] shaken and shaking like an instrument producing shocks”

  • “space” [χωρα]: not empty space or space “more geometrico”, but space in which something is going on

  • Plato’s metaphor, poetic imagery VS Aristotle’s rather rational metaphor

    • a lumpish something on which and in which impressions are molded [εκμαγειον]

    • nurse of all becoming

    • that nature which receives all bodies

    • to be compared to a mother

  • the all-embracing, all-producing, all-receiving is inscrutable

  • shapeless

  • apprehended only by a sort of bastard reasoning [λογισμω τινι νοθω]

  • partaking of the intelligible in an extremely bewildering way [μεταλαμβανον απορωτατα τη του νοητου]

  • something we look upon as in a dream

  • graspable only in its suchnesses or qualities, as when it becomes stone or air or cloud

  • the third in addition to being and becoming

Plato continues the hylozoistic line of the Greek cosmologists, but more radical

  • the air or water of the Milesians

  • Anaxagoras’ initial mixture of infinitesimals

  • Anaximander’s Infinite-Indeterminate

Plato’s principle is something like “space” and something like “stuff”

  • filled with powers unevenly balanced [δια το μητε ομοιων δυναμεων μητε ισορροπων εμπιμπλασθαι]

affordances, Aristotle’s

What is it that material adds to our account of the cosmos?

Material is needed to impose, impress form onto it.

Thales and Anaximander, there’s a kind of plasticity to things in the world

something that genuinely underlies all form, the xora

matter depends on the ability to fabricate things

john sallis of the chora

the chora has non rational effects, affects?

sallis

  • the chora shows up by withdrawing from intelligibility

  • that is just what nature is

R J Collingwood

  • matter is passive, energy comes externally

  • motion is applied to it, there is no source of motion within matter

  • Newton, it carries on (in a straight line)

Plato

  • material has energy in it

contemporary

  • empty space is not empty, bubbling with energy

  • matter has a source of energy in it

geometrical account of the elements

  • underneath the elements, there is the indeterminateness of the chora

plato uses perception to describe the elements

fundamental inteligibility of the world is not continuous with our lived experience

BEING: always (is), never (comes to be); always in the same condition

  • grasped by intellection + rational account

BECOMING: always (comes to be), never (is); not always in the same condition

  • opined by opinion + irrational sensation

  • CAUSE: to come-to-be is to come-to-be by means of a cause; without causation, there is no becoming

the demiurge continues to look to the form and power of being as a model to craft a beautiful becoming

the all; heaven; the cosmos

intelligible nature

  • how is nature structured according to what is best, good, knowable

how it is that the world of becoming is not quite the same as the model

the intelligible model that the demiurge looks at is not the same as the world that the demiurge makes

something about the world that makes it different from the model

how does the world fall short of the perfect model

why is it that physics is not an exact science, why is it an approximate science

physics, knowing something that is different than the perfectly knowable

why is the world not quite perfectly intelligible?

are we the same as the world?

  • radical assumption that goes all the way down: we are not the same as the world

how do we end up with the assumption that we are brain in the vats

separateness from the world is motivated by a positive desire to be special

separating the world from the intelligible in plato, and we incline toward the intelligible

descartes, bacon, etc.

  • the world is a system of forces, mechanical relations

  • the world is governed by laws of force

descartes posits mind as something separate, leibniz’ mechanical description of the mind

mechanism reduces the world, living things, bodies to mere mechanical relations, parts outside of parts, the parts are indifferent to each other

there is a tension between the natural world as mere mechanism and the mind, consciousness, understanding, meaning, freedom

  • started by degrading nature

cosmos and the body were constructed through

intellect of the demiurge ruled, persuaded, forced body to take on these structures

  • there is a kind of force involved in material being

  • why does material require violence? it must be different than the intelligence

  • we have to approach the world from the point of view of the difference

what is the wandering cause? what’s the reason for the planets’ retrograde motion?

the combination of materials of sameness and difference prior to putting soul into it

second discourse, timaeus starts with an account of materiality

two bases for understanding the world

  • intelligibility, mathematics, harmonic composition, soul, intelligibility of becoming

  • necessity, materiality, material processes, classical mechanics

necessity is not the same as order

  • necessity is behind what is random, what wanders; necessity depends on random cause, variation

  • randomness is what intrudes on a goal; random does not mean uncaused

material helps set things in motion; the material world is in part what moves things

  • classical mechanical view: things don’t move themselves, force gets applied externally to move things

how is it that things that are made of elements

how can elements be combined to make something that is greater than the original parts

fundamental question of materiality in general: how is it possible from wholes to emerge from underlying parts

the reductivist view of humans is that we are electrochemical interactions, love isn’t real

continuous cycling of the elements

apophatic

Democritus’ void vs Timaeus’ receptacle

the capacity to become different things

a gap between the thingliness of something and the underlying capacity to be that thing

receptacle, [χορα] open land, countryside (translated as space, spaciousness)

  • but featureless

the perfect material is going to be like this

primary feature is that it is featureless

parmenides, non being

we know xora, the receptacle, through a sort of reasoning

  • trying to give an account of how the world is ordered, but there are gaps; there must be something responsible for them; i’m precisely not thinking about what is intelligible

why is materiality required, why do we have to have a principle of

the concept of a maker, the stuff that they use to make stuff with

the demiurge requires the

the platonic ideal of what

without the builder, you don’t need the concept of stuff

the unintelligibility of shear materiality exists because of the framework of the builder

the structure of materiality, the structure of the cosmos

  • what are the basic assumptions

  • the demiurge

the pure stuffness of things has an influence on things

how is it that the xora is a source of motion

has a chaotic causal power

the all

  • in what way was it born; whether it was without birth

[27D]

What is it that always is and has no becoming; and what is it that comes to be and never is?

Now the one is grasped by intellection accompanied by a rational account, since it’s always in the same condition; but the other in its turn is opined by opinion accompanied by irrational sensation, since it comes to be and perishes and never genuinely is.

Again, everything that comes to be NECESSARILY comes to be by some cause; for apart from cause, it’s impossible for anything to have a coming to be.

Now so long as the craftsman continues to look to [what is in a self-same condition], using some such thing as a model, and reproduces its look and power, then NECESSARILY everything [brought to a finish] [in this way] is beautiful; but if he should look to what has come to be, using a begotten model, the thing isn’t beautiful.

wrt ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν

  • it is BECOMING, bc it is of opinion + sensation

  • it is caused by the craftsman who modeled it on BEING, bc ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν is the most beautiful

[29B]

  • It is necessary [αναγκη] that κοσμος be a likeness [εικων] of something

[29C]

  • Timaeus’ proportion: The very thing that Being is to Becoming, truth is to trust

[29E]

  • Through what cause δημιουργος crafted γενεσις/ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν ?

  • δημιουργος is good and without ill will [αφθονως]: δημιουργος willed that all things should come to resemble himself as much as possible

  • the most authoritative principle of γενεσις/ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν

  • δημιουργος desired goodness to the best of his ability, δημιουργος took up “all that which is sensible”

  • without his intervention, “the sensible” moved out of tune, without order

  • δημιουργος in all ways regards order as better than disorder

  • it is not permitted for δημιουργος to do anything except that which is most beautiful

  • after some calculations, δημιουργος determines that that which has intellect is more beautiful than anything without intellect

  • δημιουργος determines that it’s impossible for intellect apart from soul to become

  • δημιουργος constructs intellect within soul, soul within body

  • cosmos is born as living, where intellect is in soul and soul is in body

[48A]

The cosmos comes to be when necessity yields to thoughtful persuasion

[51B]

Timaeus asks, are there purely eidetic counterparts for the four elements of body?

[52B]

Third Kind, χωρα

  • always in motion (not a place)

  • full of powers, the four elements (not empty space)

  • indeterminate

indigenous account of goodness: the land shapes the people, makes for better political structures, better people

PRE SOCRATICS

  • there is a plasticity to things in the world for Thales, Anaximander

  • Plato continues the hylozoistic line of the Greek cosmologists, but more radical

    • the air or water of the Milesians

    • Anaxagoras’ initial mixture of infinitesimals

    • Anaximander’s Infinite-Indeterminate

PLATO

Plato and Timaeus

  • epistemic distinction, dualism: mind grasping the unchanging forms and body,sensation perceiving changeable things; Plato is critical and self-aware of this epistemic dualism

  • natural science is unstable, unreliable due to the distinction between mind/knowing and body/sensing

  • our relation to things in the world via trust: Timaeus’ proportion: The very thing that Being is to Becoming, truth is to trust

  • our understanding of the natural world is limited: we cannot speak with exactness about the world of change, but only about the world of being (mathematics and the forms); wrt becoming (the world of change), we can only give “likely accounts”

  • there are structures in the world that are mathematically analyzable

  • the elements have a geometric structure

dual-channel access to the world

  • unintelligible, underlying chora vs rational, intelligible structure of the elements

  • Now the one is grasped by intellection accompanied by a rational account, since it’s always in the same condition; but the other in its turn is opined by opinion accompanied by irrational sensation, since it comes to be and perishes and never genuinely is.

wrt ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν

  • it is BECOMING, bc it is of opinion + sensation

  • it is caused by the craftsman who modeled it on BEING, bc ουρανος/κοσμος/το παν is the most beautiful

  • It is necessary [αναγκη] that κοσμος be a likeness [εικων] of something

Why when speaking on nature does Timaeus the Pythagorean tell Socrates a myth? Why does the Timaeus have the form not of scientific treatise but of myth?

  • a botanist delights in the beauty of flowers, but their delight has nothing to do with their scientific search; for Plato, there is no such distinction

  • for Plato, the cosmos as the object of his scientific inquiry was also the object of his aesthetic admiration and religious awe

  • the cosmos is a perceptible god, supreme in beauty/excellence/greatness/perfection

How is it possible that we are able to construct in concepts [εν λογοις] becoming (the world of change)?

  • if the world of change were nothing but change, we could not speak about it; it would have complete instability

  • the world of change is not nothing but change; it has a great deal of stability; we can speak about it

  • nature is constituted of two blended principles

    • NOUS mind, accounting for law, order, stability, that which makes sense

    • ANANKE necessity, blind force, the futile folly of the infinite

    • both are causes, though mind prevails over necessity

  • we could not live if order did not get the better of brute force

  • human life must turn to nature as its model

THE MATERIAL, ΧΟΡΑ

  • the third in addition to being and becoming; always in motion (not a place); full of powers, the four elements (not empty space); “space” [χωρα]: not empty space or space “more geometrico”, but space in which something is going on; indeterminate

  • for the purposes of receiving, being impressed/imprinted; that which underlies form, the ΧΟΡΑ; matter depends on the capacity to fabricate things

  • Plato’s metaphor, poetic imagery VS Aristotle’s rather rational metaphor

    • a lumpish something on which and in which impressions are molded [εκμαγειον]

    • nurse of all becoming

    • that nature which receives all bodies

    • to be compared to a mother

  • the all-embracing, all-producing, all-receiving is inscrutable

  • shapeless

  • apprehended only by a sort of bastard reasoning [λογισμω τινι νοθω]

  • partaking of the intelligible in an extremely bewildering way [μεταλαμβανον απορωτατα τη του νοητου]

  • something we look upon as in a dream

  • graspable only in its suchnesses or qualities, as when it becomes stone or air or cloud

  • Plato: matter underlies the geoemtrically perceived elements; matter has (a source of) energy within it (contrast with: ΧΟΡΑ appears when rationality recedes; it is just what nature is; it is a passive receptacle for receiving energy from elsewhere)

indigenous account of goodness: the land shapes the people, makes for better political structures, better people

Timaeus

  • the structure of the natural world is ethical

  • this is what the kosmos looks like to the extent that it is structured around the good

two underlying tensions

  • why do you think it is important to understand nature to understand human civilization, human goodness?

  • is such an understanding of nature ever going to be exact, scientifically precise?

ideology

  • not “the belief system that you have”

  • takes a set of concepts that we are enacting in society and posits that they are natural

we are raised in such a way that the societal structures around us are given to us, presented to as the way things are

the demiurge is just there, but there’s no discussion around the demiurge; utterly taken for granted by Timaeus; why?

  • you can tell what artificial objects are good for; artefacts are dominated by their purposes in a way that natural things are not

  • there is a plasticity to natural things that makes it harder to discern purposes in them

  • the whole of the natural world is constructed by an artificer: epistemic advantages

Aristotle

  • there is no demiurge

  • the first mover is different

a single organizing power is better

  • the natural world is structured by causes, and the ultimate cause is the good

  • modern physics: amoral/aethical causation

  • for plato: things are cause because they are good

Democritus

  • things are random, there is no good

is it true that the world is structured this way? is it better that the world has an ethical structure, structured by the good?

the world is structured on an intelligible paradigm

  • the demiurge creates the cosmic animal, a living thing with a soul and a body

  • the soul is stirred into movement, the animal is responsible for its own motion

  • because there is motion, there is time; the cosmos is a moving image of eternity

  • how is the universe changing and staying the same at the same time

  • the demiurge creates the gods, the gods create the animals which are infused with intelligence/souls

  • what is thinking like for animals? animal thinking completes the world

  • how does this improve the unity of the cosmos?

  • what is the structure of the human body? how is it ethically ordered?

the demiurge has to create the material of the cosmos

  • a pile of the same, a pile of the other/different

  • hammers out sameness and difference into strips, divides the strips down the middle

  • mixes sameness and difference together

the planets have irregularity built into them, planeta

how does sameness and otherness correspond to being and becoming

sameness, otherness are materials, so they can’t be being

the mixture of sameness and difference is a real hybrid/blend

because otherness/difference doesn’t mix well (it’s nonhomogenous), sameness is homogeneity

the demiurge has to combine them using force

the kosmos

  • movement of the world soul is thought

this is what thinking it

  • in encountering itself, it distinguishes sameness and otherness

  • the kosmos is becoming aware of itself by encountering itself

the fundamental assumption is that the kosmos becomes aware of itself because it is made up of the same stuff

  • when we understand things, it is because there is something that is the same in me as there is in that thing that we understand

  • we understand things because we are made of the same stuff

modern account

  • I am so different from things that I have to make assumptions

  • the underlying assumption is that we are fundamentally separated from the external world

thinking is depersonalized

  • the world soul understanding itself

  • enacting the self-understanding o fthe cosmos

  • it’s not really me who is understanding, it’s the whole kosmos that’s understanding

perspectival/subjectie experience of individual animals vs the kind of thinking that the world soul is doing

parmenides: thinking and being is the same

thinking has to be the same as the thing for me to know

  • this means necessarily that it is not personal

  • if it were perspectival, then it wouldn’t be understanding

all of science has a different structure when…

the unity of motion, become aware of its likeness to eternity

  • recognition of the cycle, recognition of eternity

enumeration, number, marking off, integrity, unity, eternity

  • number is its own things, time runs independently of the kosmos

  • on the other hand, they are one and the same, the enumeration is the the continuity/unity of the motion

  • impossible to find in either pure being or pure becoming

  • pure being, pure unity: there is no distribution, difference; motion is distributed

  • the unity of motion, aware by marked off in time

  • unity of things is immanent in the kosmos, a proper unity of the kosmos that belongs to it, not of pure being

time depends on the unity of a motion, when the motion resembles a circle, you can identify its eternity

an account that includes the phenomena

four kinds of animals

  • heavenly gods (immortal): fire

  • winged creatures (mortal): air

  • water creatures (mortal): water

  • land creatures (mortal): earth

if there are living things in all elemental regions, there is something living in those regions that is understanding itself

ecological view: animals are not self sufficient, self complete like the gods are

  • mutual dependence, relationship adds up to something more complete than any one individual

the creation of the animals and the souls by the gods: the soul and the body are riveted together

the individual soul riveted to an individual body is buffeted by the turbulence of the senses, acts eratically; foreign to the world soul

  • beset by subjective phenomena; we have to clear away that perspectival experience

beauty helps us remember to become philosophical

intelligiblility of the natural world, what does the intelligible structure look like

how it is that we know what we say about the order of the universe

plato’s republic the most prominent of plato’s dialogues? the timaues was for a long time the most important platonic dialogue

parmenides dialogue, important for the foundation of logic, aristotle takes it over

logic and ontology

republic, its discourse on immportality

changeability/intelligibility of nature

timaeus structure

  • socrates republic (17c)

  • critias and the story of solon, indigineity of athenian excellence (20e)

  • timaeus discourse on nature

    • lays out the method and why we’re going to see the weird, wonderful things we’re going to see (7c)

    • universe organized by reason, how is the natural world shaped by reason (29d)

    • work of necessity, how is the natural world shaped by necessity (47e)

    • the synthesis of reason and necessity (69a)

the all

  • invite the gods to participate, elevating our perspective above the human perspective; there’s something about theorizing that’s speculative

  • relying on our own knowledge; flawed, incomplete, finite understanding of things

  • extend beyond what we can literally grasp; my perspective on those things will be incomplete and finite

  • don’t be surprised if my argument changes; we have to start with ideas that we can understand; we will have to supplement/alter things as we go along

timaeus narrates things out of order, describes body before soul

  • indicates the instability of the account

how do you natural science

  • how do you refer to the all when you apart of the natural world

  • have to displace yourself, 3rd person observer

  • we elevate ourselves above the human, but we can never fully occupy that

  • the perspective on nature floats above human, between human and divine

28a

  • what always is and has no becoming and never comes to be in contrast with what comes to be and never is; being vs becoming

  • fundamental dichotomy taht determines the rest of the diaogue

  • this distinction causes a problem, has to synthesize these two things for the rest of the dialogue

  • synthesis between being and becoming

  • the order of the changingness of things

  • the order has to be in the realm of being, not in the realm of becoming

  • how to synthesize the realm of the natural world with the realm of being

straight from parmenides dialogue, doxa “opinion”

what is included in the all; is nature? is being?

heraclitus: they’re not mutually exclusive

a hybrid?

epistemological point: how can we come to know things

  • opinion and the senses: this gives us the changing

  • though and reason give us being: a completely separate channel, doesn’t use the senses

  • two faculties; different modes of epistemological knowing

cause, comes to be

  • the realm of nature is the realm of causes

  • the realm of being doesn’t have causes

  • to understand nature you have to have an account of cause

demiurge, a crafstman

  • sort of like a god, but sort of greater than a god bc it creates the gods

the whole of the natural world needs a cause to come to be

the universe is a technical artefact

  • the demiurge artifices nature

  • we have a clock

natural things grow themselves; artefacts are created by something else

evidence as to why it may’ve been built

  • the realm of becoming based on the realm of being

  • bc the realm of becoming is beautiful

being is inextricable from order; inherently ordered beautify is related to orderliness

for something to appear coherent, integral, self-related, ordered in such a way that they are whole things; organism, an integrity; that integrity, the idea that organizes you

  • the source of our experience of beauty; can’t come from mere becoming

the ability to articulate the orderliness of things; the ability to articulate at all?

14

plato, aristotle vs kant

  • plato, aristotle: mind comports to objects

  • kant: objects comport to my mind

the character of the object determines how I can know it

fundamental instability in the natural sciences

intelligible construction of the natural world

concept of nature in the republic

protagoras as a contrast case for the republic

different kinds of text when we’re dealing with a platonic dialogue

texts in the presocratic transition are fragmentary; we have a unique epistemological relationship with the texts

bc they appear as incomplete or synopsized through others, we had to do a lot of ihnterpration; we lack context; how reliable is this; what would the original thinker have said; requires a lot hermeneutic work, careful reading, intellectual imagination, investigative tools

Platonic texts: differet sort of hermeneutic problem

  • we have a lot of context, but the context itself poses hermeneutic problems for us

  • not like treatises in which every word reflects Plato’s thinking

  • Plato does not agree with everything in the dialogues; Plato highlights his absence from the dialogues

  • the context itself undermines our ability to agree with everything being said in the dialogues

sophist

  • socrates a sophist or philosopher?

  • socrates aims at truth

democracy

  • write the dialogues and study them for the purposes of learning persuasion

poet of the philosophical event

Book2Republic

  • justice is just the advantage of the strong?

  • Socrates: justice is anchored in nature, the natural origins of community (protagoras: community is not natural)

  • people need each other, so we have to be good to each other

  • distribution of labor + mutual dependence = just to each other

  • desires beyond those that are necessary lead to injustice

  • something in desire leads to instability in the city

  • philosophy is the solution to injustice

  • everyone wants to know/understand; if this weren’t true, then education of the guardians would be impossible and violence is inevitable

  • education of the guardians is extremely important

description of the afterlife

  • the moral machinery of the cosmos

  • depends on reincarnation

  • Glaucon to Socrates

  • the soul itself is responsible for choosing its next life

  • socrates: the soul is immportal

  • bad things destroy things that they are the badness of

  • the vices of the soul don’t kill the soul like a disease kills a body; there is no proper badness of soul that is destructive of the soul

domain of natural world is temporary, impermanent; souls inhabit this world persist

souls are in a cycle; the souls carry their deeds with them; we don’t just affect the world, we affect ourselves

our character is the way we bear our deeds in life

the soul becomes immobilized, becomes defined, in order for justice to apply to it

if you want the world to be cosmically oriented around justice, you need a subject; that is soul

the soul as a stable concept comes into being for the sake of justice

a bunch of souls lying around; only find out about the soul’s context

people who are good are good bc of the context of their lives

a new paradigm for what constitutes a good life

can only discern the context of that soul’s upbringing

the meaning of what is being said in a Platonic dialogue is always bound up with who is saying it

Timaeus, Critias, Hermocrates

Socrates recited the the dialogue of the republic but omits certain things; it appears as a blueprint for a good society

we have to have an account of the moral universe

nature is the thing that is responsible of the excellence of Athens

nature is involved and anchors a good society

so we need to have an account of nature in general, human nature, prior to an account of good society

myths about what the underlying nature is which determines which societal structure is best

how is the good incorporated into nature

Socrates account of the republic is incomplete, important for the details of Timaeus

Critias tells a story about Solon, gave laws to Athens

cycles of natural destruction? Egyptians have long memory, Athenians have short memory

myth of indigineity: the structure of the land affects the virtue of the people their

relationship between maps of glaciation and maps of voting in 2016 for example

nature steers the development of culture

Critias’ point: land has a shaping power on societies, how good they are

myth of indigineity

an account of nature in general, an account of the all

sets up discussion of perfect, orderly city

theory of history

  • great individualist theory of history

  • political class conflict

  • economic drivers

  • natural “determinism” (the structure of nature)

Timaeus

  • intelligible world

  • materiality

  • moral constitution of bodies